A year older. Happy Birthday Eve Echoes; And joy to anyone who gets something from it.
I've previously waffled about the game(here and here and here aaaaand here). Trying the game again and doing another post about it has been difficult. I've tried to be both open minded and objective. Still I've been struggling to process my recent experiences in positive lights. The fact that this post is a few weeks(bordering on months) in drafts tells it's own tale.
I've a choice and ability to play Eve Online; There's nothing that Eve Echoes does that's different enough to draw me to it as a mobile game never mind consider it as a usurper to Eve Online. Certainly noting to playing both. So I guess that makes me biased.
Starting cut-scene cuts to cut-scene to cut-scene with no real connection or explanation... The character is in an Astero, then not, then in a station.....Boring you to death in the form of voice acted waffle that confuses and explains in equally frustrated measures. I was immediately disinterested(no wonder I missed story 'facts').
Whats my initial reaction to starting a new Echoes character... Impatience, aversion to the cringe and tackiness at the NPC characters and their interactions. Which are supposed to be, I guess, immersive and motivational; But which are like I said 'not me'. So my immersion wasn't there.
As a bitter Eve Online veteran I found it funny(haha funny) that to create a character you need to tick a box that means you consent to PvP before continuing.
I was also baffled by limited time(or is it!?!) non destructive PvP. Is the market that broken! It's game-play as far removed from Eve Online principles as PvP can get.... Principle of the profit margin more like! Funny how that works out when profits are involved.
Logging in there was a splash screen messages over my character creation/login . Giving info about the market in game not being able to keep up with demand and so NPC market interaction was being used.
Splash screens. A recurring annoyance. All trying to sell something or promote how better an experience it would be if you did.
More splash screens about game development changes.... Details of the non destructive ship PvP..... As I tried to click past them to see my character..... I was again left confused and frustrated...
It's become a lot more of a stereotypical 'mobile game' than I even thought it could be! A year on has not been an 'improvement' in game experience. It's massively pay to win. It all leaves a bad taste in my mouth. It's all a blatant cash grab I can do without. It's not a casuals game. Play fast and pay for it. Pay to gain skill levels, hop in ships and PvP... Typical CCP, cash for shortcuts is this game.
As with Eve Online there's always someone else with a better ship and fit with all the skills....... It's exaggerated in Echoes as it's been pay to win since day one. So catching up with bought SP is more than key if you want to 'really compete'. So the pressure to buy is there. Monetization to the max. Something CCP is exporting to Eve Online in a more hardcore way now(CSM Open letter) more than ever.
The changes to Echoes like non destructive PvP(tutorial or not) and the ship loan system(isk printing) I think mark the game on a death spiral... Maybe a slow one but one nonetheless. If those 'principles' can be altered what next; And what next for Eve if they can get away with it in one game.....
There aren't enough new players to sustain a growing fully fledged in game economy Gameplay is suffering. It's surviving financially on dedicated in game whales paying to get what they get from the game(just as Eve Online has and is being really milked for in recent years).
All I think of is how Dust 514 was unplugged. No player compensation or migration, Dust bunnies had their fun and it's end of business from CCP, goodbye. I'm still put off about that; A dedicated playerbase just cut loose. As if a few free gifts along the lines of an eve starter pack for Dust players to move to Eve... It would have been a nice gesture no matter how small a number took it. Then again I've still not forgotten about the Mystery Code mistreatment. CCP does not do good will, Not well if at all.
I can see Echoes breaking badly before CCP ever admits to doing it wrong. CCP is profit before principles( something, something Eve Valkyrie, something, something). They are using echoes as an experimental testbed to see what cash'in can be done to Eve Online.
That's not to say they don't just 'mess' about with their bread and butter. CCP is still CCP. Stress test popup screens in Eve Online? Just to be like Echoes; Or just my paranoia setting in a lot more.... Both?
At least they canceled it. Because live production servers are all about experimentation!
I've read a very pro Echoes article and as gushing as it was it still described the game as having 'growing pains'. Understatement of the century.
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| I wasn't, I was happy to get a free ship! |
So what can I say that's new since I've seen the game last. Honestly nothing but more of the same. CCP/Netease seem to have doubled down on their choices. Subscriptions and monetization are the key mechanics to 'playing'. No surprise there as it's a CCP problem(from a gamer perspective) that's only getting worse(I'll keep mentioning it). So much so that I don't think the game is playable(not seriously) without money/subscriptions(yes multiples) one way or another. So for a casual 'free' player looking to 'get into' it, your going to run into 'roadblocks', or more aptly, paywalls. There's no subtlety to it and as such no motivation to 'invest' financially or emotionally, not for me.
A review of the game on the play store says it all....
"Market is inflated and pvp is impossible for a newer player.......Not to mention the game being completely dead compared to other games in the genre. Overall not worth your time."
That's not to say there aren't good reviews, there are. Each to their own but for me I can more easily associate with the above review; And from what I've seen it's an accurate description.
Flying in game, systems around Jita have between 1 to 6 characters and Jita(trade hub) itself has about 300-400. Rough numbers but you get the general idea. Not 'huge' numbers.
I still can't help but smirk at the memory of the tweets from CCP about the millions of players pre registering for the game.... Did they really think that even 1 million would turn up and keep playing never mind 4 Million!!! Hubris.
I wasn't into the game on launch and I'm even more so now. It's a very off-putting game the more I play it! I can bítch and moan about what I dislike re monetization and yet here I am on a blog post trying to think it though as a game.... Down to the nuts and bolts of why play this game? I really can't think of any other reason then as a player/gamer that's 'desperate' for the Eve universe on a mobile device.... Talk about being niche of a niche. Or a shill's paradise.
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| Purchase.... Purchase.... Purchase |
They may have the same ships but a Merlin or Kestrel in both games is a different beast and fitting knowledge is not truly interchangeable between platforms. Again it's not an easily accessible game and I keep going back to thoughts of Eve Aurora (clip) and what could have been(more accessible).
Eve Echoes is not a simplified version of Eve Online for broader playerbase appeal. It's different from Eve Online, it has the same broad base conceptual elements; But it's just as complex. For all the wrong reasons. Monetization being on top.
The looks are similar, there's familiarity; But there's so much difference. The variance is both small and large. As I said regarding ships and fits, similar but different. A feel of familiarity is all you can interchange between the games. Eve Echoes is not Eve 'lite' but it is very much an echo of Eve Online.
As a game on a mobile device such as it is, there are good elements. I like a lot like the graphics and audio. There's a lot of work and effort gone into it which shows. The layout of the in game systems and gameplay mechanics show finesse but it's all overshadowed and once in that shadow it's hard to not see it all as dark. Yes the UI is good for what it's trying and does do. The changes for ship layouts and how they work in game as selectable/controllable 'abilities' in space is good. But there are too many BUTS elsewhere for me. It's good gets dragged down by so much more that's dead weight 'monetization'.
I guarantee a new player will find even the tutorial a long drawn out mass of game mechanic explanations and hands off practicality(more than Eve Online ever was). See my video below for a brief peek.
Here's a 47 minute player explainer for starting the game. A FOURTY SEVEN minute player explanation of how to get started. As Eve a thing as ever but not a game to casually play or get into.
Auto pilot is a no no in Eve Online but a given option in Echoes and it just feels wrong to me! Never mind the teleporting. Even if it bends the rules of it's Eve Online principles; It's not for 'Alphas', not for casuals. So it's pay to play and pay more to 'win'. Again no CCP surprise there but a whole lot of frustrations.
Why play this game? .... I really don't have an answer. I've found no reason to stick with it other than to try and write about it here. I'm a Eve Online bitter Veteran so I've tangential interest. I ponder and scratch my head about the mobile version; Wince at the monetization and pray it does not bleed through to Eve Online. Echoes is a game that should have been done as a game every Eve Online player 'needed'. That it's not says a lot.
The draw that Eve Online has is freedom, Eve Echoes has that freedom but your blinded by popups and blinkered by paywalls.
Like Eve Online if you get in with a friend/friends or the right group; If you click with players and use the social side to progress then fair enough, best of luck to you. I'm a mainly a solo casual carebear so.....yea. But if your playing with friends then it's not really the game your having fun with, if you know what I mean.....
As a mobile game on a 7" screen the ui is good but not the best and so much of the on screen text was so small as to be uncomfortable for me. So much so(uncomfortable to read) that I went into a World of Warcraft quest accept mode, clicking to just get past all the flavour text....I wouldn't choose it as a mobile device mainstay for gaming. My eye's would get sore after 15 minutes(Even with Samsung 'eye comfort shield').
While I got tired fast of using my phone to squint at small text; I used a Chromebook to test it some more and still wasn't impressed by the ui comfort overall. In my honest opinion you'd need to be really hard pressed for a mainstay space game to play Echoes let alone as a mobile game. Monetization really is a killjoy. If this is your chosen game then it's your time, your money and best of luck to you. But please keep an eye out for other titles and if you can then Eve Online is a much better gaming experience(for now). Harsh and judgmental view maybe; But I really don't see why a gamer should go out of their way for this game! If phones are your only platform for gaming then I'd still say to steer clear of this game. I see monetization as predatory. Maybe it's me and my old fuddy duddy ways but I don't see paying a subscription or multiple subs for a mobile MMO as a 'good thing', when it still wants your credit card to it's veins!
Did I mention I was an Eve bitter verteran...... And 'slightly' biased....
On the Chromebook front while I created my character on my mobile and played it on Chromebook. I've since tried to create another character(and record the experience) on it; Only to be told new characters can't be created through emulation. Bit harsh for a Chromebook. It's not like I was using bluestacks on a PC. With android apps coming to Windows 11 I wonder how Echoes will fare there(yea I'd not hold my breath). Again I wonder why a gamer would choose this over Eve online..... Especially on PC; But the try it nerd in me is interested.
When I tried it a year ago I had no issues with Bluestacks emulation or with lag that I can recall. I've not had any issues while running it on my phone now. Maybe a tiny bit and I mean tiiiiiiny bit of lag(mainly on the map screen) but nothing major. It's a subjective thing; Depending on a users phone and phone service provider as well as network coverage when travelling(it's a mobile game right?)....
The game on the Chromebook did/does have issues with lag after all transitions like docking etc.... And sometimes it was bad lag. The kind of lag where things get skipped or tapping multiple time's only gets executed after the lag has caught up. Which is probably more annoying. But the biggest issue I've had is with the graphics. My chromebook is a few years old at this stage(An Acer 4-core Intel Celeron N3160, 1.60 GHz, 2 MB Cache; 4GB DDR3L SDRAM; 32 GB eMMC storage; Intel HD Graphics 400 & an 11.6″ HD (1366 x 768) display). Echoes on it goes to plaid! Well not all, just my ships and station interiors(meta of the meta). I can do all else normally and all else does look normal. Given I'm not into the game I'm ok with that for testing. But it does look 'fun'.
My phone is a Samsung Galaxy A51 and while playing I didn't notice the camera cut-out section at all. The phone notifications, while the game was running, were discreetly noticeable and again didn't affect the game/game-play. Medium game settings did noting to 'stress' the phone. At max graphical settings the phone worked well and battery didn't seem to be affected but the phone did heat up a lot. Not to a point I couldn't hold it but it was noticeable.
I like getting the most from my tech and when I buy I 'invest' for max usage given purchase choice/constraints etc.... They are what they are and they are what I'm using. I'd not go out of my way to buy hardware to run this game. Dust was worth it for me in that time and circumstance; Eve Echoes in the here and now, not so much at all.
The biggest change from a year ago... Shows that the game/it's company(CCP) are in full cash grab mode with it. 3 different subscriptions. More in game currencies than I can shake a stick at in more locations then I want to navigate..... Playing this game is like visiting Vegas. Bright lights and the warm wafting smell of monetization from every alley.
As a game, can you tell I'm off-put by it... I'm struggling to find constructive criticism. The more I try to do anything in the game the more I'm averse to it. Large and small things have irked me. It's not just the paywalled content that abounds but 'just' general frustration in navigating it's screens. Less would have been so much more. So yea annoyance and frustration are my big takeaways.
Makes me appreciate other games like Star Trek Online which had an anniversary week and gave away in game store gifts..... Freebies for days that would have cost cash normally!
Downtime seems to get extended a lot and as such players are 'gifted' skill points.... Can you feel the love in such messages...... As if players have a choice. Then again I'm not paying for game access.
I'm still confused as to the clone types in Echoes. There's a clone type lower and more limited than Alpha? Is a noob a whole other clone class?
What is Eve Echoes..... A space game? Sure it is, in the broadest terms, similar to Eve Online. But the option that lets a player teleport to mission sites and back..... About as un-immersive as you can get.
And here's that tutorial gamplay footage I took....
The overriding sense I get from the (basic) tutorial is that my character and his reactions/answers to NPC's(cos I have no choice in the matter) makes him more of a dim schmuck as it goes on.... Very annoying and very frustrating and very, very, very immersion breaking. Not good story telling at all.
I like the way Eve Online generalizes conversations. Not every conversation starts with my name in real life, especially from people I know/work with! Yet in Echoes it's always the first thing said(yea yea I blanked out the name in the above image 'cos I'm that way). It's not only NPC's but the game in general; In putting together that 21 minute video of gameplay my characters name was used 26 times!
The NPC script, narrative and story-lines are woeful! Cringworthy and left me pondering how this was all written and signed off on!
The (basic)tutorials themselves are overly long in all the wrong ways. The 'skip quest text' tap tap tap method is strong and when I get to pilot my ship the game wants to teleport or autopilot for me. It's all so very lowest common denominator, hand holding in practicality with the highest of theory expectations for a playerbase. The advanced tutorial is the opposite(hands off and very practical, in a jump in at the deep end, kind of way), like pushing a lemming off a cliff.
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| Just do it |
I'd gripe about the number of 'help' systems in the game but it's this game all over. Overly complicated. The one thing that I do like about the help that's given in the learning about the game process, is from the interactive help(the 'Intelligent Assistant'), how-to animations. If only there were more of that rather than narrative driven 'game-play' for learning.
I always liked the Eve Online starter systems and I appreciate them a lot more now. Eve Online has had almost a decade of change in it's new player 'experience'. CCP seem to think they can't 'get it right'. They are overthinking it way too much. They can't see the forest for the stats.
But what IS Eve Echoes? PvP... PvE... Mining... Marketeer..... A mix....? It's everything and nothing in game-play terms. You can do lots but nobody seems to..... If a player is into it they seem to pay cash and roll with it that way. The free to play elements may as well be a limited demo experience. Boxed in with paywalls. Limiting in both interest and crushing for player expectation. The game lacks a lot of the player motivations to make the in game economy and mechanics work. In a pay to win game why not pay to win. I don't blame players for that if this is 'their' thing'.
Is it more Eve Online... Or not?
So it's self described as "a next-gen mobile spaceship MMO game based upon hallmark EVE Online design principles". That's quiet the mouthful. However what it says it is... Isn't what all players will see or say. It's so very, very niche! Niche as Eve Online is Echoes is more so.
It's a spaceship game based upon Eve Online principles....... As damning a statement as any.
Don't be fooled by it. It's not Eve Online.
Like comparing Superman and Dark Superman or in this case two versions of Dark Superman.....
If you know Eve Online and the Eve Online principles, then Echoes version of Eve Online principles are to get your cash and only that while milking any 'feels' you have for Eve Online. In some ways I'm baffled that this is a thing. This game is as it is and is so cash grab..... Talk about lowering the bar!
Some describe it as "a smaller and simpler version of its big brother". Not to harp on the previous points..... I find that hard to believe from what I've seen. It's a different game when compared to Eve Online for sure. A bit like a shopping channel that's got a space theme and you get no products even when you pay for them..... Just the joy of watching the channel.... And paying for stuff. Again I'm a biased bitter Eve Online and CCP cynic; So I see Eve Echoes as the companies true form of cash grab idealism. It's shockingly so to me...... I'm kind of gobsmacked.....
The game is playable. It's playable for free.... In limited and specific ways(if you know, you know). If you can endure it's sales pitches. But again there are far better things to do with both time and cash..... And if neither matter to you and you want to play it; Again I say best of luck to you.
As for "design principles"..... Again a lot is the same in look and 'feel' as Eve Online.... The theme is there. As for game mechanics that's a pretty large grey area. They seem to have a LOT more work to do to balance tings out.
Ships in space, do look the same as Eve Online and have the same in space 'mechanics'(feel)....But to 'fit' ships as well as their use between games is very different.
Saying both games have the same elements like the player markets is again a grey area. Eve is the pinnacle of Eve markets, Echoes version is just broken.....
So broadly speaking Eve is and is not Echoes and vice versa. Even if your going down the 'lite' comparison path Echoes is far from Eve Online(not in good ways imho). Echoes is a cash grab perversion of Eve Online. That can't be argued. I'm looking for positive justifications here and I've none to offer. It's a pyramid scheme that bets on players being suckers for it, then milks them for all the cash it can. Eye's open if your going into it!! It's so blatant I'm shocked and I shouldn't be!!
I'm sure there's enjoyment if you pay and want to be there... Again if your in a group that helps. Then again your there for the group as your game-play not the game..... I see monetization and don't want to be tainted by it.
It's not a 'free' game and an Alpha in Echoes is a far cry from an Alpha in Eve Online. Did I mention I'm a CCP Cynic!!! Getting a player to be a paying customer for me at least takes good will... CCP has no good will at all(cough mystery code cough); And Echoes is the pinnacle of that lack of 'good will'.
The more I see of the game the more I wish Eve Project Aurora was developed to fruition. Then again I'm sure CCP would have killed it's spirit with a pillow of monetization over it's face.
Eve Echoes as I see it is 100% over-ambition, 100% over monetization and only delivers on 10% Eve Online game-play.
It would seem that there's a lot of developer triage and hand holding needed to make the game and it's players act as they do in Eve Online.
The economy may not work but the new limited time ship insurance/loan thing as well as no ship loss PvP is anathema when considering a game based on Eve 'principles'. Really strange especially since you start the game and 'have' to tick a box agreeing to nonconsensual PvP! Again I can't eye roll hard enough. CCP's red line principles out the window when the cash gets involved.... The only red line CCP has is the profit margins!
There I go harping on again.
For best reactions lets look at the community response to some recent patch notes and a dev open letter.
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And those reactions are from players of the game!!
Welcome to the Eve universe!
On a very personal note and as I mentioned; I really don't like my character saying or doing things that I've no choice in... I find it character breaking and a massive knock to my immersion. I'd rather have an NPC imply what I've said.... Like thanking me for my report.... etc.
Grammar matters, I'm not a grammer fundamentalist but cohesive stories are just the same. Noting gets 'explained', not properly. Anyway the little things do matter as much as the larger....
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| "I" |
There are so many little things that feel wrong never mind those that are wrong that this game is very much not worth the time.
A gilded cage is still a cage.
Now to uninstall this thing from my phone and post this blog, it's been too long in the works.
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